Wherefor art thou Dysautonomia?
“Homeo(stasis)… oh homeo(stasis)… wherefor out thou dysautonomia?” to mangle a phrase with apologies to all you brilliant Shakespeare scholars. And mix some medical metaphors to boot.
Anyone who’s been exploring either the Hypermobility Spectrum Disorders (including the forms of EDS) or the highly comorbid Mast Cell Activation Diseases (all forms of mastocytosis, but also the newly recognized less rare HaTS and MCAS since 2016) has likely stumbled on the term dysautonomia, if they haven’t been diagnosed with some form of it already.
A majority of EDS and HSD patients I know experience either mild or more severe Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS), or some variation of this including “HyperPOTS“, Neurally Mediated Hypotension (NMH) and more. But likewise most MCAD patients I know end up exploring or being diagnosed with some variation on this theme also or find they should in time too.
But just what is dysautonomia? And didn’t POTS used to refer to telephone lines?? Ah, those were the good old days of IT support dear Jandroid, when we had Plain Old Telephone Systems! Oh how my worlds – and acronyms – have collided!
I have given short shrift to all of these topics so far on this blog because I got off lucky with a much milder “case” than most that I realized I could manage myself, knock wood. So I never even pursued the diagnosis beyond an EKG with my doctor in 2012. I was just too busy trying to literally stay fed and watered in early 2012 during my hEDS onset “storm” that by the time I figured out what was going on, I had already started to remedy it with supplements.
So I carried on with managing my hypermobile type EDS and my MCAS which was much more show stopping at least at the time. Yes, I consider myself very lucky! But that doesn’t’ mean I didn’t enjoy some trouble. And how…
Technically dysautonomia refers to dysfunction of your autonomic nervous system, which like it sounds, runs all the “automatic” operations we normally don’t have to think about, or shouldn’t. Things like breathing, digestion, heart rate, blood pressure and temperature regulation. Any or all of these can go out of whack, slow down or stop with dysautonomia, depending on the cause. (Hold that thought.)
At the height of my storm, I started experience varying bouts of tachycardia out of the blue. Thanks to my online support groups, I quickly realized what was going on and went to see my doctor about it. Of course, my heart behaved perfectly during my exam, just like how your car engine doesn’t make that funny noise for the mechanic right? So of course… I’m a crazy lady who just thinks she’s sick. Wrong!
I actually got stuck on my way out of the clinic, though I never told my doctor, because I realized it was going to be another wild goose chase and I just wanted to get home. I called a friend for help, and made it safely, ultimately, but I’ll spare you the details. I continued having mild tachycardia off and on until I had a friend help me fetch some Gatorade. I did this after remembering that they recommended this for my dad years before when he’d been passing out randomly and said he needed potassium. Sure enough: my tachycardia stopped instantly! Boom. I had one answer for myself anyway, along with just plain improved hydration.
I proceeded to make my own home-made “Gatorade” after that, and didn’t have any more tachycardia. I later found sufficient food sources that I could tolerate (I react to tomatoes and coconut, so yeah, those two easy solutions are out for me) in the form of carrot juice and molasses. (Not together!) Along with all the salt I can stand on my food and lots of filtered water otherwise, I’ve not had another bout since. Nota bene: I also was taking 500 mg/day of magnesium as well. (You’ll learn why this matters a bit later.)
But again, I’m a mild lucky case. Some of you will have been so bad that you got your POTS diagnosed first via a tilt table or other testing done by either a cardiologist, or a neurologist, if not both along the way. And some of you will have needed to take something stronger than potassium to manage yours, including various things like fluorinef and midodrine. (Talk to your doctors!) I’m so grateful I dodged this bullet.
However, I did not manage to dodge some cranial-cervical settling that messed with my breathing before all was said and done. Apparently my brain case had settled just enough on my head stalk that I was mildly squishing my brain stem and/or my occipital lobe (or both), and I would literally forget to breathe – in the day time! Like, all the time. I had to consciously remember. to. breathe! Crazy!
I also happen to have a retroflexed odontoid spotted by a chiropractor in an x-ray years ago, and don’t know if this may also play a role in my symptoms. Just tossing it on the steaming heap.
Again, I was still just so busy just trying to stay fed and watered and shut down both of my businesses and start applying for disability at this time that I couldn’t even manage to get this diagnosed. I figured it out when my colleague was diagnosed with central nervous system apnea aka “CNS Apnea”. Apparently some people end up with a pacemaker to help them remember to breathe if it gets bad enough! So how did I remedy this one you well ask?
Well, you may recall that my geneticist had recommended both Vitamin C and magnesium supplementation during my diagnostic visit of Feb 14th, 2012 when I asked about “best remedies”. (Not cures, mind you, I knew better.)
Well, again, it took me so long to even begin to address the problem that it had started to clear up on its own by the time I was getting around to it. Literally, my body and neck especially had apparently restrengthened enough from my religious supplementation regime that I was no longer having trouble breathing by about March of 2013.
What a relief! It just ever so gradually continued to improve, and I now no longer even think about breathing – most of the time, knock wood. But this can certainly be more show stopping for some of you, as it was for my colleague. I think she did end up with a pace maker before all was said and done.
I’m also lucky in that I can tolerate cheap OTC Vitamin C and magnesium and take loads of the stuff now much to my benefit. I’ve only continued to strengthen accordingly and now maintain the ability to walk albeit still with one Loftstrand crutch yet. (I went from walking to wheelchair in 3 weeks 5 years ago January 2012.) Many don’t tolerate almost any form of these two supplements, and have poor digestion, so struggle to re-strengthen as well as I did. And others of you have worse settling or instability in your necks that continues to mess with your minds – literally.
I see your posts on Facebook, they’re heart-breaking as you literally struggle to keep your good heads on your shoulders, sigh.
But dysautonomia is so much more than just POTS and CNS apnea. It can mess with your heart rate, sending it shooting sky high in almost no time, and keeping it there for indefinite periods, leaving you feeling breathless and anxious, like a motor racing out of its mounts. Alternately some will have such sudden and harsh BP drops that you literally pass out (experience syncope), or begin to (pre-syncope). Get up slowly you guys!
And in all cases stay as calm as possible, this too shall pass, I promise, even if it doesn’t feel like it just now.
But here’s the thing: the handful of people I’ve met who think they “just have POTS” and nothing else (or my favorite, fibromyalgia) have unfailingly turned out to show signs of at least hypermobility if not also MCAD of some kind as well upon further inspection and inquiry. Think about it: with rare exception, I really think POTS and many dysautonomia symptoms are the likely “love-child” of weak connective tissues all over the body lending to flaccid veins and weak valves which leads to blood pooling in our lower extremities. And comorbid MCAD lends to third-spacing and peeing out too much causing more hypovolemia (low blood volume), so between the two we’re just sort of doomed. Keep your fluids up everyone!
But plain water intake alone won’t do the trick. Most find the water just goes right through and doesn’t “stick” without a sufficient combination of additional electrolytes. Yet, and this was interesting to discover, even potassium won’t stick without sufficient magnesium! So guess what? I have one heck of a flock of guardian angels, since they first directed me to take Vitamin C and magnesium early on in 2012 post diagnosis, both of which served to strengthen my cardiovascular system. Then I intuited the potassium and fluids myself, and voila: my own remedy.
I know, not all are this lucky or mild, or will be. But you can get some definite help and hope for the condition with your doctor’s help beyond the above.
The last major area I see dysautonomia strike most is the digestive tract, in the form of dysmotility and gastroparesis (literally, stomach paralysis) in some. I have only the mildest case of same – I get full really quickly now and have for years. But my food is still moving through me well, thank God. I did have a little trouble swallowing at the height of my storm, and my elderly aunty is permanently on thickened liquids in her care home now too. Thankfully my swallowing improved again on its own just like my CCI above. Others will have more trouble swallowing for other reasons.
But I have literally seen some fellow patients die from gastroparesis, as their food is literally stuck in their systems, or nothing moves through, and they are unable to receive proper nutrition. Yes, this is thankfully rare, but very real. I think those of you with impinged vagus nerves suffer the most from this. (The vagus nerve enervates your GI tract among other things.)
Why I have such good vagal tone I’ll never know, but I don’t doubt my daily Reiki practice plays a role and helps some as did acupuncture previously. Along with just plain more good luck knock wood again. (Yes, I knock on a lot of wood all the time, trust me.) And again, an re-strengthened neck from the C and magnesium helping keep my brain stem and the rest of my neurology un-impinged (free, unsquished) and mostly happy.
Again, this is why I haven’t said much about the condition, because I’ve been blessedly spared from much of the worst of it all this time. Oh, sure, I freeze all the time, and swing wildly hot and cold on a dime, but that’s not generally show-stopping. Just highly annoying. (I wear three sweaters daily in winter.)
And this is just the tip of the iceberg of ways in which dysautonomia can affect people. I think it lends to more trouble with sensitivity to lights and sounds (I am very sensitive to both now), as well as how your pupils dilate. (Not always evenly, nor properly, even without taking any drugs.) Among many other things.
Again, there is a small but stubborn subset I meet in the support groups who insist they truly “just have dysautonomia” (usually POTS) and nothing else. But I’ve been hard pressed to find any in any of my support groups that isn’t secondary to some form of severe chronic illness like Lyme or EDS, and who truly don’t show signs of hypermobility at least if not also MCAD. My friend’s son Stryder is a rare exception, having just been diagnosed in September 2018 with a very rare form of familial dysautonomia that is not secondary to his as yet undiagnosed and extremely rare connective tissue disorder like “regular” POTS is. (I keep telling his mom he has “Stryder’s Syndrome”: he’s one of a kind so far.) He’s literally lacking complete enervation of his autonomic nervous system. That is, nerves to run his autonomic system at all.
I believe there is allegedly an autoimmune form of POTS or dysautonomia, and I won’t argue with this: heaven knows autoimmune disease can attack any part of the body so nothing surprises me there. But I believe you folks are the exception in the hypermobile communities I haunt. I still mildly suspect you of likely having part or all of what I call the Chronic Constellation and would love to know if you’re hypermobile or not. (Willing to bet some dark chocolate on it even.)
I often say “dogs don’t bark for no reason”, and neither do our bodies if you’ll allow me to mangle another phrase. (Om nom nom, I eat phrases for lunch, or my brain does at least, can you tell?) I really do think dysautonomia is more of a symptom cluster, or result of other things wrong in the body. I.e, it would be odd to experience in the absence of a clear biomechanical or pathological driver of some kind. But heaven knows some of you very black and white thinking types will insist on this just the same. (I’ve stopped arguing with you: you have literally steamrolled me to less than a crepe at times.)
But this is my blog, and that’s my theory and I’m stickin’ to it. It’s also late and I need to get to bed. It’s a very large topic, and very disabling alas. I hope I’ve at least shone a little light on why it can be so confusing to define: like much of what ails us, it’s a “syndrome” in its own right. Find my Dysautonomia Resources page here.
Best of luck to you as you manage this.
Jandroid
Who needs to go to a park to get on a roller coaster? All we have to do is get out of bed!
Lol – touché – no kidding, right? 😉
I have just read this blog and I’m happy I did. I dont think I’m crazy now, lol. Had a tilt table test august 2019, diagnosed with pots.
I have been diagnosed with gastroparesis, hiatal hernia, osteoarthritis, herniated disc, and spinal stenosis. I’m only 42 and wonder how all this just comes so early and for seemingly no reason. Through alot of research I believe I have Eds. Unfortunately according to what I have read it will be a long road ahead and expensive for such a diagnosis. Thanks for writing this blog. I dont feel so alone now. 🤗
So glad my writing could help you connect some dots and maybe find some more answers to your symptoms! Good luck proceeding, it is a long road (think marathon, not sprint) but worth it if you can manage it. No, you’re not losing your mind (crazy), just your body, smile. 😉 Cheers.
I believe my spine is responsible for my symptoms of Dysautonomia. I have had problems with neck and thoracic region and dysautonomic issues for 25 yrs .. but I’ve been able to control a lot of the disruptions of nerves to my organs by simply laying on balls until 18 months ago. Headed to Stanford autonomic disorder clinic soon and I just hope and pray they hear me. After 25 yrs of controlling bouts of nausea, hrs of repeated dry heaving for no reason, feet going numb and painful, trouble breathing, pain, heart rate and BP spiking with just a shift of my arm while laying down, and gi issues….I am now forced flat bc I am pretty sure the dysautonomia has been the cause of extreme pain at T12. I have a hemangioma that is likely swelling just like the veins in my hands do now. I sweat like mad and BP and pulse rate increase and my hands turn red and the veins bulge so badly it’s excruciating. Would explain micro fracturing all around hemangioma in T12 as well. I think spine and neck are the cause for me but unfortunately for us.. they always look at MRI while we are flat on our backs. Standing is not an option for me for more than a few minutes but I believe a standing MRI would be much more telling for so many of us. Docs are stuck in the perspective that’s limited by the tests available to them ….and I believe that’s why so many go undiagnosed so long. I also get burning in chest outside of esophagus and eat cabals if pulse gets too high like I’m being electrocuted. After, I lay there with a residual burn in those places for hrs. This is not typical or normal but docs where I live are stumped or just don’t research so I’ve been referred out if state. Have a doc friend that believes I have undiagnosed EDS (score 9/9 beighton at 50 yrs old) and a hyper mobile spine that falls into place when I lay on my back bc that is the only way I get relief from pain is on my back. Just like in an mri machine. Just my 2cents and 25 yrs of experience.
I believe you, and think you are definitely onto something regarding your dysautonomia experience. I think the full spectrum of dysautonomia includes BOTH neurological (impinged nerves/brainstem,Chiari, demyelination, incomplete ennervation) as well as physiological (hydraulics, desalination, dehydration, weak valves, low veinous tone) in the hypermobile population.
I also quite agree about upright MRI’s being more informative – if you can get one. (Even those who can tolerate them have trouble finding or affording one. I think they should be standard “issue”.)
Trust your gut and good luck! I hope you get some relief and help as you deserve. I strongly suspect you have EDS or a related condition also from the above.
I really enjoyed this post and you sound lovely -so kind and considerate of others when you are suffering yourself. My daughter Jess is 20, has a diagnosis of hEDS with many of the add ons you describe… she doesn’t complain (much) but feels awful frequently… I feel her pain although, of course I don’t . A lot of people just don’t understand, as we well know.
Ah, thank you that’s very kind. Yes, I do see and feel others additional issues – it’s not all about me! So I’m glad to hear I’m conveying that well in my writing. I have a sort of bird’s eye view as a support group leader – I’m probably privy to more patients complaints than most doctors are ironically. Whence all my added insight.
Anyway, I’m so glad your daughter got diagnosed at least! Though sorry she’s suffering too. There is a little hope and help with nutritional support – not a cure, but I’ve and some others have done well on high dose Vitamin C (I’m taking oral supplements, but there are other forms and it got me walking again 9 years ago) and something called the Cusack Protocol involving polysaccharides. (Search for that on Facebook and join the group if you’re there.) You might take heart from Madora’s story too: https://lessflexible.com
Thanks so much for sharing. I have the trifecta as well. I also have MTHFR so methylation is problematic. What form of magnesium helped you most? Most of them send me running to the ladies room. Also is there such a thing as Methylated C?
TU
You’re most welcome. Do work with a naturopath or other functional medicine doctor on your MTHFR defects if you’re not already – not everyone needs to methylate fully or the same amount. (Too much can cause problems too.) And know that supplementing with L-Methyl folate (bypassing bad MTHFR enzyme) can uncover downstream methylation cycle defects. You may know this already too, but if not, check out this site for more:
https://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm
I have not heard of such a thing as methylated Vitamin C, and I don’t think one exists. but… on a good note, it appears that supplementing with Vitamin C can help with your infant’s methylation processes if you’re a smoker as per: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5620677/
As for my best types? I’m lucky, and I tolerate cheap corn based ascorbic acide as sold in the cheapest vitamins in grocery stores (like Trader Joe’s here in the US), but… if you are allergic or sensitive to corn at all, you might try sago palm based C (a bit spendy but worth it if you can get it), or food sources like: Moringa tree leaves, rose hips, broccoli, or camu camu, though I caution this latter can cause poroblems from high histamine as it’s a concentrated form of citrus which many with MCAS react to. (Why I’m not listing orange juice either, along with the fact that orange juice is super high sugar which we should also avoid.) Oh, and tart cherry juice is good. HTH.
Any rec’s for getting electrolytes without Gatorade/Powerade? I react to all the chemicals. I read about getting Vit C and Potassium. What am I missing?
Gosh, there are several great new products on the market for this, and finding what works is unfortunately going to be just trial and error. I recommend Vitassium’s “Salt stick”, whether the capsules or other forms. No idea if you would tolerate them, you’d just have to try.
I also personally made my own sort of “home made Gatorade” in 2012 at my worst, out of a combo of lemon juice, water, maple syrup (I now react, sigh) and potassium salt. (You can get half KCL half NaCL products in the regular salt and pepper section of most big US grocery stores – e.g. NuSalt, Morton’s Lite Salt, for this.)
Coconut water is also brilliant – sort of nature’s Gatorade if you will, for those who tolerate it. I do not. (I react, waaah. Cuz, of course! Nothing’s easy!) I hope that helps a little. You need a little sugar (not too much), plus potassium, NaCL and magnesium to really get and stay hydrated.
Which reminds me to share that supplementing magnesium any way you can (we all tolerate different forms) will help you hydrate (make Potassium and Salt “stick” – whence the name in the brand mentioned above) and hydrate you. I used to go through TONS of water (and Chapstick on my lips) until I started supplementing magnesium. Boom – suddenly I could drink water, and it “stayed” and hydrated me, vs just going right through (which actually just further depletes you).
As per this link:
Magnesium and potassium. Inter-relationships in cardiac disorders 1986 Wills MR
Which I have toward the bottom of this page of mine here: https://ohtwist.com/nutrition
Hope that helps – good luck! (Always start low and slow until you know, and try adding only one ingredient/supp/med at a time to watch for reactions – wait at least 3 days between so you can sort out if a primary reaction to the second ingredient, or a late – secondary reaction to the first if that makes sense. You may not reaction until something hits your colon, e.g.)
There is Kinderlyte, an electrolyte on the market. No artificial sweeteners, colors or flavors.
I was on a Keto way of eating and have since gone to the Carnivore lifestyle. This brand of electrolytes are great for me. I have noticed that 90% of my pain goes away from eating this way, and using this brand of electrolytes.
Jessica Biel the actress and some other people came up with this as an alternative to the garbage in a bottle Gatorade.
I just came across nuun, it’s also an electrolyte company. I did’t have any reactions to it either.
Hello Jandroid, this is Dar from Mill City! I live in Bend, and in going through things, came across your card. Your website is great.
OMG Hi Dar! Thank you, long time no see! So impressed you remember me! And, great tips for us all thanks so much for sharing! Another badly affected friend gets by on “Liquid IV” packets too. She swears by them. (She couldn’t eat at all for a while for complicated reasons. She has clEDS – a super rare form.) Thanks for the shout! – Jan